Alright, I am so excited to introduce you to Vanessa Petronelli who has become a very fast, dear friend of mine. She is not just a business coach and a life coach who's helping leaders and entrepreneurs expand into their next level of vision and purpose, but she is also exploring a new modality to weave into her work.

that includes horses. And if you don't know my story, I have a long, long history of working with animals. And so I have been, my gosh, this pun just came to me, chomping at the bit. To have this conversation with Vanessa because I think that there is this untapped

Vanessa Petronelli (00:54.949)
You

Jennifer Whitaker (01:08.862)
market, there is this untapped potential of weaving business, money, the divine feminine, animals and nature all together. And Vanessa is trailblazing this path. And I'm so interested in the work that she's doing. In fact, I'm going out to Nashville next week to work with her one-on-one, which I'm so excited to dive into this even more, but

We are going to have this beautiful conversation and we're going to let it take us where it will. But the intention for our time together is really to give you a unique glimpse at what is possible when you connect animals, business, your intuition, the divine feminine money and all, and all of that together.

So welcome Vanessa. Thank you so much for being here.

Vanessa Petronelli (02:08.886)
Thank you, Jennifer. That was such a beautiful introduction to this conversation and to me. So I'm grateful to be here and to have this conversation with you.

Jennifer Whitaker (02:19.542)
Yeah, you have such an interesting background that did not originate in coaching. So you started out in the entertainment industry. Is that correct?

Vanessa Petronelli (02:31.845)
correct, yeah, from 14 to 24. I spent a decade in singing professionally in a pop group, acting, modeling, and I started my first business when I was around 20 in a similar kind of vein of the entertainment industry and event marketing and promotional.

Jennifer Whitaker (02:51.972)
How did that work lead you into coaching?

Vanessa Petronelli (02:56.279)
Interestingly enough, at 23, when I was being developed as a solo artist, as a singer, my manager at the time hired a life coach for me to do some session work with him. And it was during a time toward the end of my career where I wasn't as tapped into my intuition. I wasn't listening to God and listening to my body quite the way I...

I've listened to it later in life, but there were so many signs even prior to the life coach that were telling me to leave that industry. And prior to even having sessions with this life coach, my former boss, when I was working as the right hand to a national CEO who was doing the event marketing promotional work, she had introduced me to Landmark.

And so around 20, 21 years old, I was getting involved, dabbling, starting to dip my toes into the world of personal development and by 23 I had a life coach. But the interesting thing about this is that even when I was a little girl, I always had this very natural knack to help people and to advise friends, peers. And so people would always come up to me and tell me their life story.

Jennifer Whitaker (03:50.584)
Okay.

Vanessa Petronelli (04:16.205)
and ask me, you know, what do you think about this or what should I do about that? And I just had this knowing, I guess you could say, of how to help them. And that always stayed in the back of my mind, but I really believed that going into the entertainment industry was gonna be the platform or the catalyst for me to do very big purposeful work in the world. And God had other plans for me. And so at 23, when I had this life coach,

Something internally clicked for me after that and then once I left the industry and went on some soul-searching I went back to school I'd already had my degree, but I went into a post-grad program where the coaching Sort of started and then I opened my business from there and that was it's gonna be 16 years in November, which is just wild that it's been that long so it it was an interesting bridge from that industry to coaching and

Jennifer Whitaker (05:00.12)
Wow.

Vanessa Petronelli (05:10.061)
If you had asked me in my early 20s, you know, do you see yourself having a business doing that? I probably would have said no, but it made a lot of sense on the journey that I was put on to open this business and to do this work.

Jennifer Whitaker (05:26.596)
How has your evolution of coaching evolved over the years? Did you always work with the same audience that you do now? What has been your journey of coaching over the past 16 years? Because I imagine the industry in itself is quite different. And you've changed so much over the years, I can imagine. How has that evolved over the past 16 years for you?

Vanessa Petronelli (05:46.627)
yes.

Vanessa Petronelli (05:55.333)
Yeah, there's been many iterations of what this work has evolved into for sure. When I first started the work, I had gotten my yoga teacher training and my mindfulness certification. So I was teaching these classes and they became this opportunity for me to really talk about consciousness, to really ask powerful questions for people to go a little deeper in their practices. And as I was teaching, I was also simultaneously starting to take on

I was doing an internship when I was in school and then once I was out of school I bridged yoga to the coaching so I was getting clients from my classes and initially it started off because all of my intuitive gifts started to come online. I was able to see things inside of people that they had never even told anyone. I could place my hands on someone's body

and I could see what was happening for them. So initially, it wasn't really coaching. I was doing a lot of readings. And so people were coming to me and they're, you know, asking me all these questions and I'm performing this energy work and doing all of this type of deeper transformational, you know, processes with clients. But then they would walk away and I would feel like...

Something is missing in the work. This is not what I envisioned that I would be doing, is doing readings. There's nothing wrong with that. It was great, it was powerful, and it was helpful. But for me, when people were coming to me and saying, hey, can you tell me if my future's gonna include this person, or if I'm gonna win the lottery, or this will happen to me, it felt like people were giving their power away to me. I'm not the, I'm not God. I'm not Source. I'm not there to tell you what.

Jennifer Whitaker (07:37.252)
you

Vanessa Petronelli (07:42.051)
the timeline of your life is going to look like. I want you to go out there and create that. And so I had a real heart to heart at one point early on in my business where I really asked God, was like, something about this doesn't feel right. You know, what what can I do to help people to get back into their power? And God reminded me like you are here to help people remember who they are at the core of their being. And so transformation. Yeah, it's going to happen over time. So you need to create session work.

coaching work. Initially what you had learned, you need to bring that into your business. And so within probably just maybe even the first six months, it started to become more session work, coaching work. People would come to me, I would, you know, speak with them about whatever was going on in their lives. And at the time I was seeing pretty much anyone and everyone. I was working with, you know, clients, kids who were as young as five. So I would do these coaching sessions and then I would do these healing sessions.

Jennifer Whitaker (08:37.804)
Wow.

Vanessa Petronelli (08:41.847)
in combination. And so that was probably the first, I would say, couple years. And then it started to, you know, really transform into mostly adult women, adult men. I was working with, you know, Lululemon employees. They had hired and brought me on to work with some of the people in their organization, help to develop them. I was teaching these classes with yoga and meditation. I was a Lululemon ambassador at the time.

And then by year seven, when I met my husband, who's American, that is when things started to open. I actually was invited to go and be a part of this mastermind in LA. And I had always had this dream and knowing that I was supposed to be in LA. was just a vision from the time I was very young and of course influenced by the entertainment industry as well. Like that's where I believed I was going to end up and I was gonna have a career there.

And so I had let that go once I started my business, but then I met my husband, Jeffrey, and we had a long distance relationship. He was also a coach at that time. And this possibility opened when I was invited to this mastermind to go to LA. And that's where just the lid was blown open, so to speak, because I was in a room full of people who were, you know.

at a higher performing level than even I was because coaching was so new back in Canada, because that's originally where I'm from. you know, here I was in a room full of, you know, all these other entrepreneurs and coaches who are, you know, several steps ahead of me. And I could see what was possible. And for me, was I was I had about 90 or so clients at that time, and I was burning out.

because I was teaching and I was also doing the session work. And so when I came back from that mastermind, I closed up my business and went fully online. And then shortly thereafter, about maybe a year later, I was in the States living in LA with Jeffrey, then we got married. And so the online work basically, you know, has been the core of what I do. And then I started doing group programs, mostly for women.

Vanessa Petronelli (10:52.035)
women in business, women entrepreneurs, women who wanted to start businesses, leadership work. And then it kind of evolved into bringing more people into Hollywood, into my work. And I was going to the Oscars and the Emmys, and I high profile clients in that. And I was doing channeling work. I mean, the iterations are kind of endless. It sounds like, wow, this is a lot, but...

Jennifer Whitaker (11:13.252)
I

Vanessa Petronelli (11:16.235)
Everything very much like a puzzle piece all came together and it all evolved at this beautiful time and I believed that the iterations I was having in my business, those are sole contracts that I was having with every person that has come onto my path, with the people I've worked with all over the world from all kinds of different backgrounds and industries. So fast forward to now or I would say most recent day in the last year or so.

I was feeling that there was a real missing element in my work. And for years, that's where I was studying, you know, animals and horses and watching all these things. And I had this vision of one day maybe opening a retreat center where people could come and work with rescued dogs and horses, because I have two rescue dogs and dogs are my heart and soul. But the possibility never seemed like it was.

there for me. But once I made a commitment and I said to God on my 40th birthday, I said, listen, I know something's missing in my work now. I know that there's some new element. There's something else that's meant to be a part of what it is that I do. And you know how much I love animals. You know how much I love being in nature. Show me what that path is. I'm here. I'm open to it. Guide me. I don't know the how.

but I know that you can find the way. And as soon as I made that declaration, and it was not just from up in my mind, it was from deep in my body and my soul, and I was ready for that, the door started to open and that's how I've been incorporating horses since earlier this year in 2024 into my work. So I have the virtual work, but I also have the equine work and...

we'll see where this ends up flowing. that's kind of just a little, I know it's a little long ended, but there's been many iterations, you know, in the business and in the work that I've been doing, but the core of it's always been the same.

Jennifer Whitaker (13:14.454)
Mm-hmm. We'll get to the horses in just a moment, but I think you brought up some really important points is that the entire process to where you are, which is so incredible, so many twists and turns that are unpredictable, but they were all iterations. And I think so often we see women, know, mostly women will be listening to this, but women who are either early on or, you know, in the midway

portion of their journey wanting to be at the end or they're looking at people at the end or who are further along than they are and thinking that they have to get it all right right now when there is so much magic that happens in the iterations. I love that you said that there are soul contracts. There are people that we have to meet that are aligned and placed in the

in the journey, within the iterations. And I believe it almost like grooms us to trust ourselves more, to trust God more, to... It's an undervalued, I think, part of our journey is the iteration. And I love that you have leaned into iteration after iteration to get you to where you are. And that creates a lot of trust.

Vanessa Petronelli (14:38.053)
Jennifer?

Jennifer Whitaker (14:41.016)
Like you have to be able to trust yourself.

Vanessa Petronelli (14:47.459)
just cut out.

I missed a whole chunk of what you were saying.

Jennifer Whitaker (14:53.196)
no.

Vanessa Petronelli (14:54.563)
Yeah, it looks like on your side it's very pixelated. It's not clear, Jennifer.

Jennifer Whitaker (15:00.94)
Hmm. I'm... Okay, I'm showing it fine on mine. I'm wondering if it is...

Vanessa Petronelli (15:02.391)
your audio is clear.

Jennifer Whitaker (15:12.068)
the your internet connection.

Vanessa Petronelli (15:14.253)
I'm okay, on, it's showing full bars on mine.

Jennifer Whitaker (15:18.072)
Okay.

All right, I'm gonna just try to re say that again, and we'll go from there. And then there might be some editing that I have to do. So bear with me. Let me see if I can get back to and reframe my thoughts for a minute. So we're gonna get back to the horses part in just a minute. But I think what you highlighted is really important. And that

there were a series of iterations that got you to where you are today that were pivotal and really important. And I think what often happens with women in their journeys in entrepreneurship is that it's so tempting to look at women who are ahead of us and think that they had it refined and perfected at the very beginning. And so we put this pressure on ourselves to

make it look perfect, to make it look like it is further along than when within what it really is, which inadvertently then undervalues the journey, the process of iteration. And you highlighted something so important is that in the iteration, you believe that you have people divinely placed, you had a soul contract with them, you

learned, you grew, the iterations were a part of getting, the iterations were exactly what you needed to get you to where you are today. And that requires a lot of self-trust, a lot of trust in God. But I don't believe it, but I believe that we need to value that and embrace that as part of our journey instead of skipping.

Jennifer Whitaker (17:14.188)
over.

Vanessa Petronelli (17:16.833)
I couldn't agree more because it's the iterations that you look back on and you remember as some of the most profound opportunities for your own evolution and growth. And I think we undervalue too just the joy in the journey. Getting to that end goal, there is no end goal. And I hate to break it to anybody listening.

Jennifer Whitaker (17:39.352)
Right. Yeah.

Vanessa Petronelli (17:42.059)
We all have our goals that we set, but then by the time you reach that goal, then you're like, well, what's the next thing? And that's just kind of the nature of the way the human mind works. It's like the monkey mind, right? It's like, what's the next thing and the next thing? And we keep setting this bar for ourselves of achievements and accomplishments. But the truth is, even when you get there, it's beautiful and you want to celebrate those things, but it's also the

process, like that's where I feel sometimes most proud of is not just achieving the goal, but the journey that it took to get there and to have those iterations and how blessed are we to have those iterations because we can learn so much from these lessons and from those periods where we're being, you know, kind of maybe sometimes put under pressure to get to where we want to go or just what happens in the process of

evolving and growing a business. Like there's just so much to it. And if we're not present to it, we can miss out on that. If we're only focusing on the end result, then we're really, we're missing so much of what life is providing for us in every moment, especially as leaders and as women.

Jennifer Whitaker (18:38.788)
you

Jennifer Whitaker (18:55.98)
Yeah, and I think that goes back to the feminine way of growing a business or even growing and creating your life. It's like, I think the masculine format is very goal oriented. It's reaching for those deadlines, destinations. And so we're almost having to retrain ourselves to remember that it's about the journey and to pause and take it slow and enjoy and learn.

through that process, through that uncertainty, through the journey of it all.

Vanessa Petronelli (19:31.299)
Yeah, it is. It is. And the feminine approach is very different than what I think most women and what most of us have been conditioned growing up. And so it is an unlearning of a lot of those habits that teaches us to get back into our bodies, that teaches us to slow down, that teaches us to be present, to use our intuition, to listen, to observe, to be.

You know, it's a different pace when you start to build your business or your career from a more feminine perspective. But the rewards of that are so much greater than when we're in the old kind of conditioning and beliefs where we're just like moving and going and I need to get there and I need to be perfect and it needs to look like this and I have to be like that. Like that just sets us up for burnout. And let me tell you, I have been there.

multiple times in the past. And I know what that's like, especially as somebody who's been a former perfectionist and high achiever and high performer. I know what it's like to want to just be there already. I can see it and I can feel that intensity of what that's like because I was that version. I was that woman, you know, a while back. So I get it. I understand.

Jennifer Whitaker (20:29.06)
you

Jennifer Whitaker (20:56.608)
your journey with the horses and integrating that into your work. When you said that you're now in a space where you're building your business intuitively by being present, by being true to who you are, how have horses helped you anchor into that even more?

Vanessa Petronelli (21:22.277)
Hmm, the horses. This is a hard one to put into words, but I will do my best to articulate this. I believe that a lot of the work that I have been doing internally for probably even the last four or five years has been in preparation to be able to facilitate this work with the horses. It is a very different energy that coaching virtually or in person without the horses

Jennifer Whitaker (21:27.012)
you

Vanessa Petronelli (21:51.909)
It's a very different experience because horses are the embodiment of the divine feminine. They naturally who they are in their nervous systems in the way they are as prey animals, who they be basically is the embodiment of what we are basically working for so long and so deeply to remember and to be.

And so horses have this incredible ability to bring us back into our bodies, to bring us back into that space of magic and wisdom that resides within our own heart and soul and being as humans. And it's important for people to understand because horses are prey animals and they are social herd animals, meaning they live in community.

They live as a herd, or a band of horses, whether they're domesticated or in the wild. And they rely on their intuition, they rely on each other's roles in the herd to not be a prey, to not be preyed upon. So they have just this very natural inclination to co-regulate with one another so they can be in unison with their nervous systems, with their heart rate, that when there's danger coming,

where there's a threat to their herd, one or two of the more lead horses will alert the rest of the herd to leave. So they need to be around calm energy. They need you when you interact with them to be fully present. If you're in your head, they know, they sense it because for them, their four legs are always on the ground. Their hooves are always connected to the earth. They are always living in the present moment.

Because if they're not living in the present moment, then that could be a threat to their survival. And the beautiful thing about horses is that when we enter into their field, I think it's something around like 10 feet, I think it goes out more than that, to be honest. But from what I've read in the studies and research, when you enter into a horse's energy field, into their presence, because their heart takes up so much space in their bodies, it's way larger than a human's.

Vanessa Petronelli (24:17.731)
that we start to feel that connection and we start to regulate and we start to have the beating of our hearts sync up together through the electromagnetic field. So when we're in the presence of a horse, that's why we start to feel so emotional. We start to feel because we're finally in this space of A, getting into a co-regulated state, which I believe majority of humans in our day and age are dysregulated.

Jennifer Whitaker (24:28.068)
Wow.

Vanessa Petronelli (24:46.533)
They're living in fight or flight. They're living in some form of survival mode. And the horses help to co-regulate us. And when we're more regulated, we're aligned. We're more alive. We have more clarity. You know, our bodies start to heal. Our minds heal. We're able to be more open and receptive to what life is offering us. And the same could be said in many ways about other animals and nature in general.

Jennifer Whitaker (24:47.95)
and

Vanessa Petronelli (25:13.657)
but there's something very special about being with a horse because it's just so intuitive and so in tune with you and who you are in each moment. And they are instant biofeedback reflections or mirrors to who we are in that moment. So if we're in our heads and we're saying, I'm great, I feel amazing, but in our heads we're terrified or we're suppressing emotions of some sort.

being in the space in the field of a horse, eventually that is going to surface because that is what's most authentic. That is what has the horse feeling most safe with you. So it comes down to with working with horses, being present, being in our bodies, being honest about who we are, allows us to create a sense of safety when we're with a horse because they now trust us and they can

include us as a part of the herd and not see us as a potential threat. Because when we're not present and we're in our heads and we're out of our bodies, we're dysregulated and ungrounded, that's a potential threat to their safety and their survival. So it offers a lot for us as humans, even more than what I'm sharing, because it really has the ability for us to learn how to slow down, how to be.

Jennifer Whitaker (26:14.434)
Thank

Vanessa Petronelli (26:37.445)
how to let go of distractions, how to reconnect with ourselves and with nature because the most primal primitive parts of ourselves are still there. Maybe they're dormant because of the kind of society and culture we live in. But working with horses has the ability to kind of strip and dissolve all those pieces away at a very accelerated rate and helps us to get back into our most natural state, to the core.

of who we are. So that's why I believe God has also placed this on my path to work with the horses because they're very divine beings and they embody what in my opinion, I believe we're heading towards in our society. We're gonna eventually have to tip that scale from where we've been to going back into harmony with nature, into harmony with each other, into harmony with ourselves.

Jennifer Whitaker (27:07.161)
Yeah.

Vanessa Petronelli (27:33.783)
So I could say so much more, that really, that's the deep connection for me and why I feel this work is so powerful.

Jennifer Whitaker (27:43.544)
I'm so fascinated by what you said because years ago I grew up with horses and I was actually riding at a time that I was being severely like physically and emotionally bullied at school year after year going to school, having to face girls that were being physically violent to me. But in the afternoons I would go to the horse farm and animals were

Vanessa Petronelli (27:59.791)
Hmm.

Jennifer Whitaker (28:12.856)
what I thought were my escape, but they were also a place where I could connect to them, connect to myself without being able to put that in words. Like I was a child, I didn't know that that's what I was doing. Hearing you describe the science behind horses makes such perfect sense that I remembered who I was, that I was able to connect with my authenticity.

in the afternoons to create some sort of safety and balance amidst years of what was going on in my life, all of that trauma. And so we take that now and I think about the work that we do in business coaching and my work around money and that there's often so many subconscious and unconscious wounding around our money and our business. I mean,

We can, we, know this, that most of a business is 80 % energetic, 20 % of it is strategic. So getting to the root and remembering who we are reconnecting with that part of ourselves is actually what's going to make us thrive, not just financially, not just through our business, but personally and spiritually too. So I just am so, so fascinated by all this work that you do.

And I guess that kind of leads me to my next question is if you could kind of paint the picture a little bit more about what that work with horses looks like with a client.

Vanessa Petronelli (29:47.065)
Yeah, that's a great question. So when I sat in the development of the work earlier this year, I have been doing case studies because I'm so fascinated by my own transformation and working with the horses in a more therapeutic coaching type of environment. But I also really wanted to see what happens to people over time when they're around the horses as well. So every session, there's a similarity.

but it's also very different because it really depends on the intention that a client has coming into the work. And so all of the people that I've been working with, they're all leaders, entrepreneurs, professionals in their careers, but each of them have come in with different things that they wanna work through. Some of them are working through things that are more business related or that's what they initially come in for.

Jennifer Whitaker (30:41.014)
Great.

Vanessa Petronelli (30:42.403)
And then it just kind of goes in a whole other direction, which I'll get to in a moment. What I have found, especially for my medicine and the work that I am bringing through with the horses and and co-creating with them because we're there, my partners in this is a very slowed down, divine, feminine approach to healing and to mastery and to the unveiling of the authentic self and of the somatic somatic approach to the work.

So it's not just depending on strategy or just talking through some of the things that are coming up for a client. It's really about having them get into their bodies and get so present with themselves and allow the horses to come in and to work with them. And they will come in and work with clients in a variety of different ways. This is why there's a similarity that...

I'm bringing the semantics, the coaching work, the healing, the energetic work, the spiritual work through in the sessions. But the horses have their own way of approaching a client. And it's fascinating because, I mean, my mind is blown in almost every session because again, my development over the years has allowed me to notice very subtle shifts in energy, very subtle shifts in movement.

And when you're working with horses, you're not just paying attention to your client, you're also paying attention to what is the horse mirroring? What is the horse saying? What are they communicating here through their body language, through how they're coming in? I also can hear and communicate with animals. So many times the horses will also come in and they have something to say to the client. But the horses will also...

not approach clients when they're not being authentic. And I have seen the horses not show interest sometimes when a client comes and they're saying one thing or they're in a very excitable energy or they're feeling really anxious and the horses will literally walk away. But when the client comes back into their body, even if they're like a hundred feet away, they will feel it and they will come in.

Vanessa Petronelli (33:03.897)
The horses just know, they know what a client needs in each session. So sometimes it is us doing, you know, more of the coaching work and then approaching the horses and there's more mindful grooming or we're doing some kind of energetic process or there's some kind of channeling that wants to come through or I'm literally just having the client be with the horses because they are so not used to doing that in their daily lives.

Most of us are so dreadfully uncomfortable without having a phone in our hand or thinking about a to-do list or thinking about where we need to go next. And so in the work, I strip all of that away, which is why I love this work so much because I'm helping and so are the horses to help the client co-regulate and get connected to themselves so that the stuff that they have been bearing or suppressing or have been avoiding

whether it's something in business or not gets to surface. And so it's amazing to see that sometimes the intention, you sometimes clients come in with a very specific intention. Sometimes it's more general, but whatever needs to be worked on that day, it presents itself. And I've seen clients have massive breakthroughs around things that they've repressed from way back in the day that they weren't even aware was still, you know, affecting them.

And I also see clients having really big breakthroughs around things where they've been confused or they haven't had the clarity around that. But here's the kicker in this. And this is what's so special about this work. Working with horses in this capacity is like a gift that keeps on giving. Because when you leave the horses, they say scientifically that your nervous system is regulated for about, I think, eight or so hours.

I could be paraphrasing that I think is anywhere between 8 to 10 hours after you've interacted with them. But working with the horses, you will all of a sudden get insights, ideas, understandings about certain things that happen sometimes days, weeks or months later. There have been times in my own equine therapy where I've gone and it doesn't look like much is happening sometimes. That's the thing. Like if you're in the frame of mind of

Jennifer Whitaker (35:02.605)
you

Vanessa Petronelli (35:25.283)
I need to do all these performative exercises like sometimes we see with equine therapy or equine coaching or facilitated learning. My work is much more slowed down and peeling back and really being in your body and removing a lot of the doing elements because what surfaces and arises is sometimes really profound and where most of my clients what they've needed. So it will look like there's not much happening at times.

And then all of a sudden I'll hear from my client, they'll be like, my gosh, that thing that you had mentioned, I didn't get it in that moment with the horse. But all of a sudden I now have this massive understanding of something that happened in my life or I've been struggling through this thing or I get it. Like, that's why they were mirroring this or you had channeled something through and now I have the clarity around what you meant by that. So there's been many moments for myself and clients where it's this gift that just keeps on giving where

down the road, you have some kind of breakthrough or there's some sort of transformation that happens and it is a result of being with the horses and you can correlate it to that.

Jennifer Whitaker (36:35.48)
That's so interesting too because the way we're taught to structure businesses is like there are outcomes, there are timelines. We have to articulate very clearly what the value is, what to expect. But it sounds like this work kind of turns all of that on its head. So how have you had to adapt to not being able to put

this into words or not being able to define a timeline or what to expect. How have you had to trust the mystery and prepare your clients to trust the mystery as well?

Vanessa Petronelli (37:15.127)
Yes, I mean, and that is always a work in progress and it depends on the client, right? So there's some clients who just get it and they're just like, I know, you know, I've come to you for business and there's so much more that's wanting to come through. And how I often position this with clients is you have your intention. We know what you want as an outcome. And oftentimes the path, even in my virtual work, it will kind of be windy. It's not going to look

Jennifer Whitaker (37:19.748)
of

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (37:44.747)
linear. It's not going to be straight and narrow. And so at the end of the day, your business is an extension of who you are and who you're being. And so you have to remember that. Your alignment in your business, the clarity, that next level, that next goal you want to achieve. There is a time and place for strategy. 100 percent. Just like you said, 20 percent is strategy. But for the people who are heavily focused on strategy, it's often because the thing that they're really needing and missing

is the work that I do with the horses. It's the opposite at times. You want the outcomes, but this is tethered to programming, conditioning, beliefs, fears, dysregulation. There's some kind of identity or identities that are keeping you perhaps tethered to these outcomes. But really what is naturally and organically happening when you show up and you're in the presence of the horses may not be the thing that your mind or your ego is wanting.

Jennifer Whitaker (38:17.24)
Right. Yep.

Jennifer Whitaker (38:24.749)
Yeah.

Vanessa Petronelli (38:43.789)
And so this is why I don't think this work is for everyone at times. I think everybody could benefit from it. But you have to be at a stage and place in your life where you're gonna invest in something like this for yourself, but also be willing to take your hands off the wheel and say, know what, I surrender to the process. I have my intention, I have my desires, and it may not look or go exactly the way I'm thinking it might.

Jennifer Whitaker (38:43.812)
Yeah.

Jennifer Whitaker (38:47.705)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (39:10.681)
it's going to be better than that. I'm going to get exactly what I need from this process, not maybe what I want initially, but eventually all those paths lead to that outcome. They just don't go and maybe in the way that you were thinking it would. So articulating it can be difficult at times, but I do share this with clients very early on. You know, I want you to have your intentions. I want us to have those goals. I'm going to do my best to always

Jennifer Whitaker (39:12.996)
you

Jennifer Whitaker (39:25.24)
Yeah.

Vanessa Petronelli (39:39.461)
provide 100%. I will give you that to have those goals met and we also have to make room for the possibility that there could be other things here that we're not aware of right now. Blind spots, things that your soul, things that the horses are gonna reflect or bring up for you that maybe you're not, you weren't thinking are involved in this process. So you've gotta trust that. Trust the process.

Jennifer Whitaker (39:50.19)
Yeah.

Jennifer Whitaker (40:02.212)
Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (40:04.085)
surrender into it and the more that you can let go of being rigid and inflexible or trying to control the process and the outcome, the more you will actually receive from what's actually happening here, the gift that the horses and this work is bringing you. And that's why I call the programs Equine Soul Journeys, because that's exactly what they are. It's a soul journey that is being incorporated with horses, with equine.

Jennifer Whitaker (40:16.052)
You

Jennifer Whitaker (40:25.752)
Yes.

Jennifer Whitaker (40:34.528)
Yeah, that's so beautiful and such a great reminder that this work with the divine feminine that weaves in nature and animals and all these other soulful components. I mean, it can be terrifying as we, you know, unprogram ourselves from what we've been conditioned to knowing what to expect, having that certainty. But I think too, there's

The word I wrote down just a moment ago is liberating. How liberating is it? I feel like, my gosh, if I just think about stepping into the unknown, I feel like I'm almost exhausted and tired of this whole performative way of being in business, being in life and having my soul kind of like ripped open of

trusting the unknown, knowing that whatever's gonna show up is gonna be better than I imagine is terrifying, but also exhilarating.

Vanessa Petronelli (41:43.605)
with you, Jennifer, on that. If you had told me this like 10 years ago, I would have been like, you're crazy for thinking that. But now I know it is true. And it's actually when you start to really incorporate the divine feminine into your life, into your being, when you tap into that and you start, I call it like we create this holy divine union within where it's not that we've

Jennifer Whitaker (41:49.368)
Yeah.

Vanessa Petronelli (42:09.007)
completely cut ourselves off from that inner masculine or that divine masculine. It's that we're bringing the feminine and the masculine and they're working together, creating this holy divine union within yourself to have your life work in a way that if you're too much in your masculine or too much in that feminine, it just doesn't work quite the right way, the most aligned way.

Jennifer Whitaker (42:17.346)
Yes.

Vanessa Petronelli (42:32.995)
I think for so many of us, we're again, so used to being in that more masculine energy or that masculine mindset to achieve. And we think this is the only way we're going to make things happen or hit our financial goals or, you know, become more visible. And, you know, it's only a part of it. And so the invitation, I think, for so many of us now is just knowing that that mystery, that unknown, that

Jennifer Whitaker (42:53.284)
Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (43:02.445)
of, you know, surrender, of letting go, of allowing, receiving. It opens you up to experiencing so much more ease and flow in life. It doesn't always feel that way when you're in that unprogramming, that deprogramming, right? That process. But when you're there, it's like life doesn't have to be so hard. We don't have to feel so depleted, so exhausted, so...

Jennifer Whitaker (43:14.564)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Whitaker (43:19.042)
Right.

Vanessa Petronelli (43:31.447)
always being in control, so in fear, like we really get to actually allow life to move us. And when you're out in nature and when you're working with animals, they remind you of that. And the horses have said some profound things. I think you might appreciate this because I was talking about money with a client one day. And one of the horses, I believe it was Belle, she's one of my favorite mares at the horse sanctuary. She's just this wise,

nurturing, super affectionate, just owns all of who she is, this beautiful horse. And she reminded me and also my client, even with our pasts, the horse's pasts, because many of them have come from situations that were not always so nice, abuse, neglect, all of that. And they were discarded, many of them, to auctions and kill pens.

Well, she said, even with our pasts, see how the abundance of how life supported us to all end up here at this amazing sanctuary. We don't have to go out and beg for hay and for food and for sunlight and for these beautiful pastures. She's like, it's provided to us. And so let this be a reminder that abundance is who you are. It's your natural state.

Jennifer Whitaker (44:38.148)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Whitaker (44:50.776)
Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (44:57.583)
And that sometimes in order for you to have what you want in your life, you don't always have to push or scream or fight for it or feel like you're behind or live in fear around it. And the way Bell positioned it was so profound, because it's like, wow, that's so true. Like even with their pasts, somehow their souls ended up at this amazing sanctuary where they are so loved, where they are so taken care of.

where they get to live out the rest of their lives in peace, in joy, as a herd. And they don't really have to do anything for that. It's just who they are. They were able to be provided in that way. And I thought that was so profound to hear something like that.

Jennifer Whitaker (45:36.833)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Whitaker (45:43.95)
So, so beautiful. Absolutely. Yeah. What role do you think animals, mean, in addition to horses, what role do you think animals play in helping us reclaim the divine feminine, but also embody our own abundance?

Vanessa Petronelli (46:04.409)
Yeah, I mean, first of all, think humans undermine the intelligence and wisdom that animals naturally carry and embody in their DNA and in who they are. One of the things that I'm a real advocate for for animals is learning to let go of these ideas that we have to be dominant over animals or that as humans, we tend to be more intelligent or wiser, smarter.

And so this approach from the old kind of consciousness, from this old world that we are now leaving behind in our consciousness upgrade right now, it's understanding that we all cohabitate on this planet together and each of us has wisdom and animals are just natural empaths and intuitives. And they have a lot to share and a lot to say. I remember watching a video

with Eckhart Tolle and he was talking about animals and why they're so wise and why they're so important and valuable in our lives and he said something like to the the lines of animals are pre-ego and humans we're working on becoming post-ego and so that is the profound wisdom that animals can offer us because they don't have the ego

Jennifer Whitaker (47:22.549)
Wow.

I'm sorry.

Vanessa Petronelli (47:30.401)
always filtering everything through. It's not to undermine humans, of course we're highly intelligent, skillful, all those things. But animals can teach us a lot about coming back to our most natural state. And it's in our most natural state that a lot of the strivings and the programming and the conditioning and a lot of the things that we experience as humans

they don't have those kinds of problems. Do they take on some of what we're embodying or what we're feeling and experiencing? Absolutely. Dogs are a great example of that. They're natural empaths and they will take on like a dutiful role, any of the emotions that we're feeling because they don't wanna see us suffer because dogs are very much about living in joy. They wanna see you happy. They wanna see you enjoying life. So every animal...

Jennifer Whitaker (48:20.77)
Hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (48:27.895)
and part of nature has something to share with us. And I think one of the key pieces in that is listening. Deep listening and slowing down. So many issues that clients, myself, I think humans have, comes from this need to always be talking, vocalizing, asking, wanting, striving.

And there's not enough listening that happens because when you actually get still enough, quiet enough, present enough, and you listen, you will hear the inner voice. You will hear what even nature is trying to tell you. So that's really the invitation I feel for us and abundance is included in all of that. And if you're having, you know,

questions around your own abundance or your own inner work, nature teaches us to listen, to pay attention, to observe. And when you do, you might just start to get some of those answers, some of those inquiries that maybe when you're spinning in your thoughts or you're seeking external answers from everyone around you that you're not getting, it's all found within. It's found in nature.

Jennifer Whitaker (49:51.63)
Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (49:54.543)
have to slow down enough to be in that space.

Jennifer Whitaker (49:57.464)
So what I'm hearing is that for all the women who are listening right now, the way to connect and awaken with their intuitive knowing and their post ego selves is really just to slow down and listen. Is there anything else that you would guide them to do?

Vanessa Petronelli (50:20.303)
definitely get regulated in your nervous systems and clear up trauma and wounds and the subconscious beliefs. That is a massive part of what may be blocking us from also tapping into our intuition, but also being in our bodies. We have to get comfortable living inside of our bodies. And when we've had traumas or wounding of some sort, oftentimes we live out of the body or in our heads.

So you've gotta get comfortable enough to feel those emotions, to do the deeper internal work, because that makes your vessel a very safe and comfortable place to be. And when you're feeling that regulation, that's really truly what soul alignment is. When we feel safe and comfortable in our bodies and we're able to not just listen to all the thoughts on our head or...

allow our lives or personalities to be governed by past traumas or wounds, then we actually start to connect with more of the authentic core self. So the healing work is imperative in this, because you can be still and quiet and still have those old things coming forward as we all do as humans. I mean, that's the core of my work is doing the deeper work. And that is actually what allows you

Jennifer Whitaker (51:36.219)
something.

Vanessa Petronelli (51:44.729)
to become that clear channel and vessel for your soul, for your entire being to become more aligned and alive and get comfortable with the listening and being more present and slowing down.

Jennifer Whitaker (51:57.54)
you

What do you think the future holds for weaving animals and nature, the divine feminine, money and business, all of that together?

Vanessa Petronelli (52:09.187)
Well, my sort of sense in all of this is that the work with animals is actually going to become a much more widely accepted and in demand profession, if you will. I think that we're seeing people on a wide scale noticing that all the tech, all of that kind of patriarchal conditioning that we've had, you know,

in this world, it's dissolving and it's dismantling. And I feel that we are, not everybody, I can't speak for everyone, but I think a good portion of people who have been really on this transformative journey are starting to really feel that inner, knowing that inner sense of wanting to get back to our more primal, nature-bound rootedness, like that connection to what maybe our ancestors have. I'm not saying we're gonna go back to that time, but,

We need to tap back into more of that primal sort of nature oriented way of being and living. And I think that we're gonna start to see a lot more research and studies people in these fields stepping forward and really, really educating people on the healing properties and power of just simply going outside and sticking our feet in the grass. We already have research on that.

Jennifer Whitaker (53:33.188)
Thank you.

Vanessa Petronelli (53:35.141)
But my forecasting and my visions sees that it's going to be more and more and more widely accepted and something that we all do. And I think we're gonna start to slowly just navigate and draw away from what it's been, which is not that. So I think it's a huge, huge role in our consciousness shift and really reconnecting back to what...

nature and what animals naturally provide and have always been. And the more that we're open to that, I think the more that we're going to get reconnected to what's most important. And yes, money, wealth, all of that's a part of that. But I don't think it's going to be as much of a focus in a way that we've made it through the ego. I think it's going to be a part of it. It's going to be a much different approach and consciousness towards those things.

Jennifer Whitaker (54:23.278)
Right.

Vanessa Petronelli (54:29.709)
as we evolve and get reconnected with nature.

Jennifer Whitaker (54:33.228)
I totally agree. And I'm so excited to see where this leads us because as you know, my background has been in animals for many, many years and then moving into this industry, I still am continuously trying to find ways to weave it all together. And I think that there is an intersection for this. That's why when I met you, I was so excited to hear about your journey and I wanted to share it with the masses. And I know that there's still so much more for us to explore together.

But I totally agree with you. I think that this is just the start of something really beautiful and almost a returning to ourselves and our remembrance of who we are as we strip away the layers of society and the programming and get back to the truth to who we are. And I can't think of any other better way than having animals and nature guide us to that place. So.

Thank you so much for all that you're doing. Where can the women who are listening find you and learn more about your work?

Vanessa Petronelli (55:33.733)
Hmm.

Vanessa Petronelli (55:38.723)
Yeah, thank you, Jennifer. This has just been such a joy for me. I am very active on social media, so you can find me on Instagram at my full name, Vanessa Petronelli. I'm on Facebook as well, but there is my website. You can go to VanessaPetronelli.com. I am in the process of developing more of the equine-related website as well, so stay tuned for that, but.

Any questions, any comments, anything, I welcome that on social media or through my website.

Jennifer Whitaker (56:10.614)
drop the links in the show notes as well so people can easily find you. But my goodness, I am sure that this is going to be a wildly popular episode and we will definitely have to have you come back again and dive into this even more deeply as your journey continues to evolve and as you have more iterations of your work. So I look forward to continuing the conversation.

Vanessa Petronelli (56:34.721)
Mmm, me too. Thank you so much. I can't wait.

Jennifer Whitaker (56:38.68)
Thanks, Vanessa.

Are you a woman who feels the call to create wealth and success differently—one that honors your feminine energy, spaciousness, and true nature? Do you dream of building a thriving multiple 6 figure business without sacrificing your well-being? You’re in the right place.

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